Are YOU green?

Dana is correct, especially when it comes to computers.  G reat many e-waste "recyclers" have been caught simply shipping used computers to third world nations, regardless of whether or not they were functional.  Essentially becoming landfill outsourcing companies.  This is why I refurbish whatever I can for use locally, before getting rid of the useless materials through a non-exporting, material reclaiming, zero-landfill recycling companies.

This does have an unwanted side effect though.  Recycling plastics in many cases requires more energy than making new plastic items.  So you trade landfill space for an increased carbon footprint.

Of course, Jason would not have to be entirely altruistic.   This could give him a chance to suggest that with long-term guidance in these decisions, from the right IT guy instead of the person at the "BIG BOX STORE," the amount of plastic to deal with next time could be reduced. ;-)

Thanks for your input, Jason.  You have identified that some e-waste recyclers are committing a fraud by not recycling at all.  That is a reason to check out the firm being used.  It is not a reason to abandon recycling as a strategy for conservation of resources. 

And yes, I have heard that the cost of recycling some plastics, glass and aluminum cans uses more energy than making new plastic, glass and aluminum cans, but I don't know if that is true.  This I do know, however, making new plastic, glass or aluminum cans requires the extraction of additional raw materials with which to make them, whereas the recycling does not.  If more energy is required for recycling, we must be aware that there are tradeoffs.  As an increasing portion of our energy consumption comes from renewable sources, over time the objection that recycling uses more energy and is therefore harmful to the environment will erode -- if there is any substance to it at all.

However, the re-use of materials rather than the extraction of new natural resources remains a compelling argument for recycling.

Jeff

Hello, My name is Jim Lisabeth and I am new to Motor City Connect.  I was just reviewing the discussion on forming a "green group".  I would be more than willing to participate and share my knowledge on setting up corporate recycling programs.

I work for Recyclemax which was mentioned in Terry Beans reply.  We offer programs that would allow you to recycle everything from office paper and plastic water bottles to scrap metal and electronics.  Check us out www.recyclemax.com.

Respoding to Jeff's August 12, 2008 07:14AM post - Research.

I'll start by saying that we definitely need to continue researching methods of recycling because Jeff has a good point - better to use materials that are already extracted than to extract new ones.  So long as that is good for the envirnment, which with today's technology, it is not.

Let's look at paper first. Looking at the total energy cost, from cuttong down trees to making paper, viersus picking up paper at the curb and recyling it, recycle paper requires more energy to make. Also, more chemicals are required to remove the ink from paper than are required to bleach wood pulp into paper. So, recycling paper creates additional waste materials that making new paper does not. The excepton to this rule is brown paper - grocery bags, cardboard, and so on. Recycling paper *only* for this purpose makes a lot of sense.

Also, we are not running out of trees. In fact, since the Forestry service has been keepig track our trees (1937), every year we have had more harvestable acres of forest than the previous year. This is partly due to better conservation - protecton of green spaces, better firefighting techniques, etc. - and mostly due to the lumber industry taking a 60-year look at the future by planting more trees. In fact, the only year we haven't had an increase in harvestable forest is 1979 - when Mt. St. Helens flattend 2 million acres of forest.

Let's look at pastic. Plastic is not easy to recycle. You simply can't melt it and reform it. Melting the plastic causes the plymer chains in it to loose their structural integrity. And you have the labels to deal with and the colored dies to clean out. Again, more waste chemicals. It'd be nice if we would use only blakc and clear plastics. Anyway, to recycle plastic, it has to be cleaned of labels, metal fasteners, and other items. This is done primarly done through the use of heat, which requires more energy. Then the plastic must be crushed into a fine power, melted, extruded, pulverized again, and so on. The number of pulverizations required (and melting and extrusion) depense on the grade of plastic you need. Higher grades of plastic require more pulverizations. All very energy intensive.

Metal has similar issues. Paints, inks, and other decorations must be cleaned from the metal before the metal can be melted and reforged. Also, recycling degrades the recycled metal so it can't be used for some purposes. Take for example aircraft aluminum. To meet safet specifications, this type of aluminum cannot be recycled. It must be new. Now recycled aircraft can be used in boats and cars. That aluminum can be recycled into desks, office accessories, and such. This type of metal can be recycled many times before it is only good for soda cans, which have a lot of ink printed on them. This type of material can be recycled many many times before it is only good for children's tooys and other thigns that only last until the next birthday.  8{)

So, for the most part, recycling is a losing game. Unless you re-use something. Re-using toner cartridges is a great example of re-use. Shreadding tires for use under shildren's playgrounds is another great example of re-use. Any time you can find a new use for someone else's junk, you help the environment.

Again, let's keep up the recycling research. Eventually, it will reach a point where it is friendly fir the environment and cost-effective for th econsumer.

Dana,

An additional way to look at Environmental Responsibility is to look at reducing what we use in the first place.

If we look at paper alone, information that is put on paper and stored can also be stored electronically and retrieved more easily than in paper form. If we look at how we can create less waste in the first place, there will be less to recycle. We may not be able to go PAPERLESS, but we can try to go with LESS PAPER.

In our personal lives, if we used reuseable grocery bags instead of paper or plastic, we can reduce the amount of waste in BOTH catagories.

Further, recycling technology will continue to improve and become more effecient. It may not be perfect now, but recycling technology must be pushed to improve.

As far as the elements that have to be removed from the commodity being recycled, the recyclability of a product at the end of its life needs to be considered at its creation. We can't undo what has already been manufactured, but we can look at new production. We, as consumers, can demand this in our new products.

Jennifer,

This is the type of discussion that has to happen everywhere. Thank you for opening this up. The more we question the status quo and openly discuss these issues, the better.

Laurie,

Very good points! For decades, I have asked the bagger at the grocery store to give me a paper bag instead of a plastic bag because the paper bag biodegrades much more quickly and into far less harmful components.

Can you imagine a future when, instead of buying soda in cans, we refill them at a dispenser like distilled water? That would save soooooo much energy and raw material, and probably make the soda cheaper for the consumer to buy while increasing the profits of the soda company. Everyone wins, except the bottle makers.

I agree that recyclng technology needs to be pushed to be improved, but it needs to be pushed in a lab, not in th emarketplace. I have a brother-in-law who is a chemical technician at Dow Chemcial. Dow has been researching how to recycle plastic long before it becane a national concern 30 years ago. Raw material costs are always going up, and if Dow can find a way to re=use materials instead fo buying newmaterial, their Accounting department and shareholders would be very happy indeed.

Your last point is most valid. Not only do we all need to be smart about how we recycle, but about what we buy in the first place.

For those interested in furthering this discussion in person, there is a GreenUp (meet-up of Green minded people) posted on the MCC Calendar for September 8th, 3-5pm at Biggbys, Royal Oak, Woodward just South of 13 Mile. But, please keep the online discussion going as well.

I am pleased to see the discussion continue!  Everyone raises some great points.  We have to get more into this mindset.  I am currently on vacation with my family in Orlando, FL.  I have noticed that their grocery stores have huge bins right inside their vestibule designated for "plastic bottles & cans (non-refundable ones)" and another bin for plastic grocery bags.  They re-use the bags.  We need to get our stores here doing something similar!

Also, I am happy to report that the Disney parks have "recycling" bins placed throughout their parks as well.

Keep the discussion going!

DTE will be hosting Energy Efficiency Forums this fall:

http://my.dteenergy.com/products/energySeminars/energyEfficiency.html

My business, Capital Waste, is at the front line of recycling and landfill avoidance, and as a result we need to be pretty well educated on the benefits (and myths) of recycling. 

Dana brought up some great points, but there's another component of paper recycling she failed to touch on: water.  When most people think of paper recycling they think "save the trees!"  However, the greatest benefit is water conversation.  Water, unlike trees, IS scarce.  We may not think so here in Michigan, but in many parts of the world water is precious.

Additionally, recycled paper creates significanlty less air pollution (and requires less energy) than paper made from virgin material.

"If you and your family recycled a ton of writing paper, you would save as much as 7,000 gallons of water. How much water is that? You would have to drink 130 glasses every day for more than a year to get that much water." (Newman, S. & Schwarz, M. 1993. 50 Simple Things Kids Can Do to Recycle. Berkeley, CA: EarthWorks Press.)

"The EPA has found that making paper from recycled materials results in 74% less air pollution and 35% less water pollution. This means that every ton of recycled paper keeps almost 60 pounds of pollutants out of the atmosphere that would have been produced if the paper had been manufactured from virgin resources." (Paper Stock Institute. 1990. "Why Recycle Paper?" Recycling Paper.)

"Every ton of recycled paper saves approximately four barrels of oil, 4200 kilowatt hours of energy and enough energy to heat and air-condition the average North American home for almost six months." (South Carolina Electric & Gas Company. 1991. Recycle - Save Energy.)

I own a grocery delivery service called WeGoShop.  I shop and deliver groceries for those who do not like to or are unable to shop.  I am "green" in many ways:

1. Try not to use grocery bags. If I do I bring them back home and recycle them. 

2.  Offer bicycle delivery service to my very local customers. Discounts apply!

3. Through my service I am able to accomplish many customers' shopping, therefore reducing the amount of carbon emissions.

4.Encourage my customers to buy local or organic.

5. Exending my offerings of shopping at local farmers markets as a way sustain the local economy as well as reducing the production of carbon emissions .

6. By having a stocked refridgerator and panty allows for more home cooked meals/albeit

"Slow Foods"; a way of enjoying "real" food and hopefully, local food and a way to connect with those around us.

There you go.  That's my contribution!

Mary Fox

maryfox@wegoshop.com